Wednesday, February 25, 2009

Tubular gluing failure...

So yesterday I went to go check on the set of tires that I had glued before.

This was the first set of cross tubulars I glued without using the tape so I was pretty curious how it would come out.

When I was testing the tire adhesion, I was gut wrenched to find that I was able to peel the wheel off just by pulling on it with some force. What I discovered was that for one wheel, the glue did not seem to adhere very well to the base tape, and for the second wheel it adhered to the base tape, but not very well to the rim.

The process took about 4 days total, 3 thin layers on the tire and rim, and a final tacky layer on the rim before mounting.

I am curious how hard it should be to pull a properly glued tire from the rim? I had to use a tire lever to break some of the interface, but it seemed to come off MUCH easier than when I used tape.

Maybe back to tape...

17 comments:

rosey said...

you have to factor in storage conditions, time since they were glued, and the fact that it was your first time without tape. i've never used tape and i've had mixed results with glue. when i rushed the job and cut corners, not surprisingly the glue job failed after only a few weeks. when i take the time and do it right, it holds for 1.5-2 seasons. i'll check my two sets tonight to see how they are fairing after living in a cold basement all winter.

Yash Katsumi said...

I wonder if gluing in the basement was not a fantastic idea since it is a bit cold down there.

Perhaps I will wait until mid summer to give it another try.

It looked like the glue did not even stick to the rim at all.

gewilli said...

what kind of glue?

did you clean the rim with acetone?

carbon rims or alloy?

did you really make sure that the basetape was completely saturated?

Those FMB cotton ones are wicked thirsty. Taking more than a tube to saturate them.

if you don't saturate the base tape it ain't gonna hold well.

Did you roll it on the floor or just pump it up to 40 psi and let it sit?

did you broomstick it?

no way doing it right should it be easy to take off. not a chance...

Yash Katsumi said...

So the strange thing is that the basetape looked totally saturated. But it wasn't at all. The tape was glistening orange with the Vittoria glue, so I thought it was prepped well. Apparently not.

ALSO, if I did not clean the rim enough, am I totally screwed in that I have to scrape the glue off, clean again, and start all over?

Yash Katsumi said...

"did you broomstick it?" Yes. I like this trick too.

Also, to clarify, the glue seemed totally brittle.

zack said...

You shouldn't have to clean the rim again--the existing glue will make a good adhesion point for the new glue. I take off the clumpy bits and dirt if there is any, apply new coats, and am ready to go.

What tape do you use? You were previously using the tape and glue method?

Yash Katsumi said...

Before I used to do a layer of glue on the rim, saturate the base tape. Wait one day, put a fresh layer of glue on the tire, put the tape on the rim, and combine. that method seems insanely solid, but also, I have noticed that it is a nightmare to clean.

I use the cyclocrossworld tape because it is much wider than the TUFO tape.

RMM said...

Did you really rub the glue into the basetape? I find that it needs to be massaged in.

Rim cleanliness could be an issue. Also, are you sure that you used enough glue. I have had trouble once when I tried to skimp on glue.

But I agree with gewilli, if it is glued correctly, it should take 20 minutes to remove that tire from the rim.

I just don't trust tape. But I have only tried Tufo, and the result was scary.

Yash Katsumi said...

Mike, I think you have hit upon something. I did not massage the glue into the basetape. I think next time, I will do small sections at a time, carefully applying some pressure and getting that glue to really sink in. This time, I just pretty much painted it on.

Good call, I will try it next week when I get some more glue.

gewilli said...

thin layers on the base tape is key, and rub it in...

that's how I put it on, little section at a time, gloved finger to rub it in.

with the Vitto mastik

RE the rim... if SOME of the glue is really well stuck, just leave it there. IF the glue was used/dirty/ridden, you might want to clean it up a bit or remove it totally.

IF you are going to leave the glue on there, rub it down with a good amount of acetone to smooth the edges down and really make sure the rim is clean where the glue lifted off.

All it takes is a finger print or somewhere that you grabbed it with a non-gloved hand to leave enough oils to prevent the glue from sticking. no amount of broomsticking will get it to stick there...

Yash Katsumi said...

You make a mistake once, and you never make it again. I have learned some hard lessons from this experience.

But at least I discovered the poor glue job in my basement and not on the course.

Cleanliness is king.

Average Cat 4 said...

Hi Yash, I just checked my tubies...un-inflated since mid-December in the basement...can't even budge the rim/tape interface (which is also why I decided not to strip and re-glue for the road season). I have found that the Vittoria glue works best-but only when it is really worked into the base-tape. If there is any latex on the base-tape, you REALLY have to rub it in...my 2 cents (Cory J)

RMM said...

I am unfamiliar with "broomsticking." Can someone shed some light on this?


The only thing that I can think of is that awful thing that is rumored to happen inside of prisons and I really doubt that prison-style broomsticking would help tires adhere to rims.

zack said...

Mike-
After you glue the wheel, you roll it along a broomstick that has a circumfrance similar to the rim profile(most narrow broomsticks). This ideally seats the center of the tubular better and promotes adhesion.

Honestly I think if you've stretched the tubular on and inflate it, and ride it back and forth a bit, you'd be fine. But I still do the broomsticking just in case.

RMM said...

That is not what they do with the broomsticks in prison. And generally, they use the larger circumference models.

NVdK said...

I non-broomsticked mine and just inflated them. Glue job lasted 2 seasons. My 1st time, BTW.

RMM said...

As a note:

It took me 45 minutes of knuckle cutting, grunting and fingertip bruising work to get my tires off of my EDGE rims this past weekend.

This is the way that it should be when your tires are glued properly.